Denise Asafu-Adjei, Resident Physician - Urology

Hi, Denise! What do you do, and given how specialized it is, how would you describe it to someone unfamiliar with that space?

I am a resident physician, which means that I have finished medical school. My sub-specialization is in the area of urology which has a focus in the surgical management of the urinary system, including the kidney, bladder, prostate, and the penis. 

Can you describe your educational path? 

I was born and raised in the Bronx, and attended probably one of the country’s most famous magnet schools, the Bronx High School of Science. I then attended Carnegie Mellon University, majoring in biological sciences. At that point, I knew I was going down the medical path. I’ve always been interested in the science field, so in college medicine felt like the best match. I went to the University of Michigan for medical school, and took a year off to do a master’s of public health at Harvard’s Chan School of Public Health with a focus on healthcare management. Currently, I’m a chief resident in my last year of residency in urology at Columbia University Medical Center. So, I took a fairly straightforward path for a physician. The one difference is my MPH, which at the time wasn’t as common, but the trend is on an upswing now. 

What attracted you to urology, specifically?

This is always an interesting question. When I went to medical school, I didn’t want to do surgery. As I started doing clinical rotations, I became drawn to surgery but thought I would do primary care or pediatrics. When I decided on surgery, I was getting ready to start my MPH at Harvard. Part of my spirit was not sold on general surgery. I knew that I liked working with my hands and liked the immediate gratification after completing a procedure for a patient. What really shifted my attitude on surgery was the passing of my uncle who had metastatic kidney cancer. When he was getting evaluated in Ghana, I was trying to read more about the field because I had no idea what type of physician took care of people with kidney cancer. To help my family determine who my uncle needed to speak with, I read so much information on the urology field, and I came away feeling like that specialization would satisfy my own surgical interests. I also knew that there was some versatility to change my focus if that’s what I wanted, which also drew me to the specialization. It’s also an area where you can still have a solid work/life balance. 

Why is it a better work/life balance for this particular area?

Urology is a subspecialty within surgery, and within surgery there are so many choices for what you can do based on how frequently you want to be in the operating room. If you want to operate all day, there are subspecialties where you can do that. As I have gotten older and developed more ownership over my future, I know what I want, and I know what I don’t want. Being happy, having the opportunity to have a family — these things are what really matter to me. Urology offered the ability to have that kind of balance. Soon, I’ll be starting at UCLA for a fellowship in sex medicine and male infertility, which is a fairly heavy clinical-based practice with some OR time, but not overwhelmingly so. 

Who has been a major influence for you? 

Not to sound cliche, but my parents. They’re both very persevering. We may have had no heat on growing up but they always made sure our school fees were paid for. My family really appreciates education, and I think my parents could have both done a lot more outside of what they did when they came here forty years ago as immigrants. But they always put us at the forefront. They inspire me every day with the deep love they show me and my siblings.

In the little time off that you have, what do you like to do?

I enjoy going to the theatre and to the movies. I love live performances. Spending time with my family is always a huge plus. I also really like physical activities to keep myself in shape. Me and my partner picked up golf a couple of months ago. I appreciate trying things I never thought I’d do. I also really like politics and policy, and understanding how systems work. And traveling — love, love, love traveling. 

Have you had any especially challenging experiences?

During medical school, you have to take the United States Medical Licensing Examination, or what is more commonly called “the STEPs.” It includes all of the things you have to do to apply for board certification when you apply for residency. We don’t have formal grades. It goes by how you’re doing in the class. It’s a required exam, and in the first part of the series, I had studied probably the most intensely I have ever studied in my life. I would start at 6 a.m. and go until late. I was studying so much but I didn’t do as well on the exam as I had hoped. When you’re coming from a place when you’ve always been on top and nothing has been hard, it’s challenging. From the standpoint of “lessons learned” it was actually really good to see that I need to take care of myself. I had been practicing this physical martyrdom that just wasn’t sustainable. I needed to be happier with myself, and that attitude transferred into decisions I would make for myself later on. 

Can you share a bit on your UCLA program you’ll be beginning soon? 

I start my program in July 2020 and, as I said, I will sub-specialize in male sex and infertility. My ultimate goal is to shift the paradigm of policies around reproductive health. There’s lots of red tape around IVF [in-vitro fertilization] and sponsors and donors. I’ve always felt that minorities often have not been able to tap into IVF because of the associated costs, so I’m hoping to create better access.

That’s incredible. And so, finally, what are you excited about for the future?

In so many ways, I have felt genuinely blessed. In the short term, I’m excited for more travel. Recently I traveled to Greece, and I went to Ghana for New Year's. I try to get away when I can, because I deeply feel that you have to recalibrate in order to continue on. 

On a larger level, I think I’m excited about the tide of women of color that have begun to emerge and to ascend in every realm of society. I’m excited about the true diversity of this country being reflected in everything we do, and I think that value—diversity—is being recognized and respected more. I’m obviously biased because I’m a woman and I’m black, but I think it’s exciting. 

I also get excited about my speciality. Being able to help people have children and an improved quality of life through healthy sex lives. Happy, healthy people create happy, healthy societies, and any way I can contribute to that is great.

---

Please share this post with a friend, and follow us at @BlackWomenWorkIG!

Mounia Asiedu, Math Teacher

Hi, Mounia. Thanks so much for doing this. We’ll start with the basics. Can you tell me what you do?

I am and have been a teacher for 8 years. I’m also a part-time graduate student pursuing a Master’s in School Counseling.

And so how did you come to be a teacher? I know that’s a big question. 

It’s kind of a long story, but I think that I’ve known that I wanted to be an educator for a good while -- at least since before I attended college. Unfortunately, I made the mistake of not following my heart and took the long road to get here. I’m a second generation American who was raised by a single mother. Just to give you some context, we lived in a three-bedroom apartment in Flatbush with other family members and at any given point, there were at least 13 of us living there. You can imagine that when we had conversations about future occupations, my mom’s main concern was how I would be able to take care of and create a better life for myself. The push definitely wasn’t to become a teacher. It was either you became a doctor, a lawyer, or some kind of business person. 

When I finally attended college at Temple University, I double majored in legal studies and international business administration. During my junior year, I had my first opportunity to teach through an Americorps program called Jumpstart, where I worked in a pre-kindergarten classroom with students from underprivileged backgrounds. I loved it, but I knew that it couldn’t pay the bills. 

After I graduated with my Bachelor of Business Administration, I moved back to New York and worked at a non-profit within the criminal justice system. I often describe it as soul-crushing work. For three years I worked as a Release on Recognizance (RoR) interviewer and I watched defendants who were a majority Black and Brown kids, being shuffled in and out of cells, shackled in arraignment courtrooms, and treated in some of the most unfair and inhumane ways. At a point, I took some time to reflect and I came to the conclusion that I wasn’t a part of the solution for these kids. The thought of that wore me out and ultimately, I had to make an exit. I decided to apply for the New York City Teaching Fellowship program in 2012 and I’ve been in the classroom ever since.

I think it’s interesting that you worked in the court system because having been in public education administration myself, the school to prison pipeline is something you constantly hear about. How did what you experience in your role as an RoR interviewer influence how you approach teaching? I’d imagine you would implement a kind of counterbalance to the justice system’s very deficit-oriented way of viewing black and brown students.  

The school-to-prison pipeline is very real! I remember interviewing so many kids and overwhelmingly, most of them had not graduated high school. So many of them had stories about being pushed out of school. I think that my background offered me very unique insight on what the other side could actually look like for my students and there is no way that I could ever want that for them. So, I have always tried to keep that in mind. I try to remain hyper-aware of what the consequences of suspensions could be, of what a classroom removal could lead to for my students. Additionally, the data is out there that shows that these things don’t work, so why would I utilize these tactics?

What we know works is fostering meaningful relationships with your students. We know that restorative justice programs and efforts are more effective than suspensions and harsh disciplinary actions. What has the potential to work is keeping love and care for your students at the center of your practice. For me, that has been the way that I have been able to connect with some of my toughest kids. It was never through isolation. I want them to know that I will hold them accountable and even when we struggle, when we don’t agree, and when they don’t like me, I’m still going to love them and be right there for them the next day. Also, I think it helps that I’m a Black woman teacher who is from Brooklyn just like them. I’m familiar with their neighborhoods and we have some stories in common. I believe there is truly something powerful about representation, visibility, and feeling seen. 

You spoke about being heavily encouraged by your family to go into certain careers -- medicine, law, engineering -- which ended up not being fulfilling. That emphasis on STEM careers is one that I think is probably familiar to a lot of immigrants, or children of immigrants, or even just African Americans who are focused on upward mobility. It’s this gold standard. As a math teacher, how do you alleviate that pressure to excel in math or STEM, and allow your students to really lean into other subjects they might be passionate about? 

I think that I’m still learning and evolving in this area. Given the structure of our deeply flawed education system -- one in which students’ standardized test scores are tied to your overall teacher rating -- a lot of educators, especially those who may be untenured, are forced to prioritize these subjects. It’s extremely intimidating and to be honest, it wasn’t until I received tenure during my third year that I felt a lot more comfortable with the idea. As weird as this sounds coming from a math teacher, my main focus is no longer math content itself. This isn’t to say that it’s not a focus, because I definitely love math and want my students to also love it. I just think that before we can get there, before I can ask my students, most of whom have not had a great relationship with math in the past, to dive in and even embrace it a little bit, we really need to build on some other things. 

I have the luxury of being a part of a program in my school that allows me to have some of my former students as teaching assistants in each of my classes. My classroom is structured around relationship-building and working on skills like resilience, critical thinking, and questioning, first and foremost. Students complete their work mostly in groups and learn that success can’t be experienced in isolation. They learn to depend on one another and I try to instill in them the idea that they are responsible for each other. We operate as a unit. These are skills that I believe can extend beyond math class and will help my students in whatever fields or trades they decide to enter in the future. Over the last few years that’s where I’ve focused my energy, on building a community.

Who are some of the role models or influences you’ve had that have helped you shape your approach? 

Ooh, several! So I am fortunate enough to work in a school with administration that understands the importance of the whole child, versus seeing a child as a test score -- as a one, a two, a three, a four, or as a pass or fail. I’ve had a lot of support through my principal -- thank goodness -- and my assistant principals and some of my colleagues who were there before me and have dedicated their lives to empowering children and fighting racism through education.

And what are some of the things you’ve learned from them? Key take-aways or lessons they’ve imparted on you, that you continue to return to in your career? 

At my school, we have two unofficial slogans, “An injustice to one is an injustice to all,” adopted from words spoken by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Also, we say “We are all working on something.” Both are constant reminders that as an educator and as a human being, it is my job to continue to work towards equity and creating opportunities for my students to be successful. My students and all students are deserving because they are here. Period. Anything that goes against that idea is worth fighting against. When I’m feeling inadequate as a teacher and generally overwhelmed by how brutal our world can be, I return to these words for purpose and hope. They keep me going and remind me that you don’t stop. You don’t give up. This work is extremely important and we all need others who will continue to show up for us, especially our children. 

You said you were in a graduate program. What is the program?

I’m at Hunter College right now for school counseling. So this is interesting. Applying for the program came about similarly to how I got into education. I can't remember exactly what it was, but some big world event had just taken place. At this point, it seems as if there is one every day. I’m going over my algebra lesson and looking out at my students and I had a moment of pause within myself.  I thought “Why am I doing this? Why does Algebra matter in this moment when our world is on fire? Why does this matter when some of my students are going through some extremely traumatic stuff in their everyday lives?” I think that every few years I have these periods where I start to reflect and re-evaluate whether or not I am doing what I need to do to be helpful to my students and to others. And so like my experience with my role in the courts, it came to a point where, yes, I love math and I love teaching, but I see myself being able to support students in a different way, in a way that I believe is a bit more meaningful right now. Given the state of America, and the entire globe really, it’s hard not to think, “Why am I standing in front of students talking about equations?” For me, being a math teacher is limiting at this point. I’d like to devote more time to helping students navigate issues in their lives. I want to have more conversations with them about what’s going on in their worlds and the world at large and help them to find ways to be a part of a solution. 

What do you do to make sure you keep your own mind right? 

Woo! (laughs) First and foremost, I spend a lot of time talking to some of my colleagues who have been in education for a long time. The individuals that I call my friends at work have a firm grasp on why we’re doing this thing -- they get it. I can turn to them with questions or when I just need to vent. Oftentimes, that’s my therapy. Recently, I also started to do a lot of reading for my own pleasure again. I listen to lots of music. I meditate, and use a singing bowl to clear my mind and center myself. And traveling! Having summers off is a great thing. I go on a solo trip every summer and it does wonders. I always come back feeling refreshed and renewed. Lots of meditation, positive affirmations, reciting mantras, all of that stuff. 

In your career as an educator, what has been a misconception you’ve uncovered? Or an “a-ha” moment? 

That teachers, or even adults for that matter, have the answers. In fact, I believe that young people are the ones that have the answers and that we need to listen to them more. At any point in history, they have been at the forefront of movements for change and progress.

And what have you learned from your students? 

To be patient. To be humble. (laughs). I’m trying to remain teachable and open to feeling uncomfortable. More and more, I’m embracing the idea of giving up my power as a teacher to empower my students. That definitely was not my experience as a student and not what education typically looked like when I was growing up. I don’t know it all, even with these degrees. I’m taking my cues from them and I’m really just learning to listen. 

Since we’re on the topic, what are you excited about for the future? For yourself,  for the world, or for your students? 

Just the idea that change is in motion. I think that we can very easily get wrapped up in the notion that things should happen quickly, but if you know anything about change, you know that even though it may be slow to come, it comes. I trust, knowing my students, that the world is going to move in a more progressive direction. It will move towards a place where people are free to be themselves, a place where we’ll have less hate in the world, and more people will be caring and loving, and interested in the well-being of the collective rather than the individual. 

Awesome. So, finally, I like to leave a space where you can share anything we didn’t get to that you’d like to put out there. 

We need more Black educators and more diversity in the classroom (laughs). We definitely do. It’s important for students to see themselves. I hope that soon we get to a place where we really make representation and equity in education a priority.

Yes! I’m really excited for you to become a counselor because what you’ve shared about how you think about your students, and how you view them so holistically as these beings in constant transformation and with infinite potential, I’m so glad you’re in front of them at this time in their lives. To have a counselor who can speak to the socio-emotional side of education, who has a shared background is just so rare. 

Thank you! And thank you for doing this project. I’m excited for you. It’s admirable that you’ve taken on the incredible task of highlighting the everyday Black woman in her field of work. I think we have a tendency of assigning value based on who is in the spotlight and who isn’t. The truth is that every single one of our stories matter and deserve to be told. I hope this project encourages many more of us to do just that. 

I appreciate that! Thank you so much, Mounia!

---

Please share this post with a friend, and follow us at @BlackWomenWorkIG!

Kahni Pr'Out, Defense and Aerospace Engineer

Hi, Kahni! Can you tell me what you do?

I work at a defense and aerospace company. I am technically a model-based systems engineer. The systems I work on are pertaining to armed forces technology -- figuring out a way to streamline that technology, from concept to development to deployment and maintenance as it’s being put on a system, such as a radar on a plane. 

Can you share more on your career path? 

The first word that comes to mind is “janky”. (laughs) I always knew I wanted to go to school and get as much education as possible. I went to school to become a math teacher and realized I wasn’t able to teach math in a way that kids would understand it. Teaching is a calling and I wasn’t called. Then I got an internship at a university research organic solar cells, and ended up attending that university for graduate school focusing on mechanical engineering. After I finished, I accepted a fellowship in Washington, D.C. since it’s an ideal climate for defense work -- a lot of federal workers and contracting opportunities. But it’s also kind of a pigeonhole that can feel limiting.   

What makes it feel like a pigeonhole?

Like many sectors, the defense space is predominantly male and predominantly white. Everyone also has a military background or family in the military. And I think that mentality can bleed over, because the military itself is stuck in a rut. If society has experienced a period of progress, then defense is still in the period before integration. A lot of people have been in positions of power and influence for a long time, and the hierarchy of the military is mirrored in the hierarchy of defense work. There’s a lot of white male classism -- you do what you’re told, fall in line. There’s not a lot of innovation compared to a Google or Linkedin. 

I have some points of conflict. In my mind, studying math then mechanical engineering, my expertise can be applied to a lot of things. There’s a noble cause in helping the military and that community, but I could also be solving the Flint water crisis. I’ve had this realization that in a way, I help the U.S. government harm or ignore Black and brown communities. In my role, I do benefit from a Republican presidency, which is tough for me to reconcile. 

What would you be excited to get into? 

I’ve been reflecting on that a lot for the past three months given that I’m tied to this region because of my son and my partner. The engineering I’d want to do would revolve around clean water, clean energy. That was my thesis -- solar energy. I’d be interested in getting into something more climate-focused, such as wind energy. 

Do you have individuals in your network that can be useful in pursuing those fields?

Most of my connections can be tied back to the Department of Energy, the Department of Defense, and national labs. I could network to where I want to be, but that would take some time given that jobs don’t necessarily turn over that frequently, and we’re in a hiring freeze.

This specific climate is a challenge, too, given that the President does not believe in climate change. I came into my current role during the transition. I watched renewable energy departments get gutted. There are startup businesses focusing on these things, but they’ve anticipated being impacted and aren’t looking to bring on additions right now. So I do have a network that can be helpful, but a shift in government policies would be great. 

What is it like for Black women in defense work?  

There are very few. There are always very few. I went to an HBCU for undergrad, and I feel like I was in a bubble. I was affirmed and pushed forward. They always said “This isn’t how it’s going to be when you get into the workforce -- you will be the one of one, or one of few.” When I got to Iowa State for graduate school, I was one of two. When I got to work, it was the same thing. I thought I’d have better armor built up by now, but it’s taxing emotionally. I just can’t show up as my whole self. 

I work with a therapist, and something I have arrived at is that I believe it is an act of resistance to maintain in this space. I had a boss watch Hidden Figures, and come to me and ask “How do you feel it?” I told them I’d just read the book and hadn’t seen the movie, and they said, “Well, you’re like Katherine Johnson, except you don’t work in the basement.” Moments like that happen and you just think, “Did you really just say that?” At one point, I would try to catch myself and not roll my eyes or make anybody uncomfortable. Now, I’m at a point where I don’t care anymore, because that person just made me uncomfortable, so they can receive that same energy. There was a time when I wouldn’t get designs in my hair and now I don’t care. So I’m slowly finding these small acts to push back against the status quo. 

What are some of your self-care practices? 

I write quotes by Black and Afro-Latinx women on small Post-Its, and I’ll add them to my Skype profile. I like having those available and surrounding me while at work. I recently got into scented oils, and I have a plant. I try to get in earlier than others to get myself in the right mode. I might listen to a podcast. At home, I have similar practices. I burn sage and candles. I like cooking...there’s something about chopping veggies and doing something healthy for yourself. Finding time to work out is helpful. When I’m afforded the opportunity to work from home, it’s helpful to log off and go to the gym for a bit. And, of course, my son. He’s all about the moment and so being with him is very grounding. 

Do you have any advice for young women interested in engineering? 

Engineering gets a lot of clout. Engineers are automatically considered smart because they have a highly technical education. That used to really intimidate me. I spent so much time trying to compare myself to others, especially because I was coming from a math background and had originally wanted to be a teacher, so I didn’t have the same ‘credentials’ as my colleagues. And while I still compare myself, I have come to see that being a Black woman, being progressive, and having my background is what sets me apart. I’m always thinking about engineering from not just a technical perspective but also a strategic one. I want us to create systems that are built more for protection and not just defense, which is different than most of my colleagues. So that becomes my unique perspective in a meeting. Just remember not to spend so much time focusing on what you don’t have, because they’ll do that for you. 

What do you love about what you do? 

I genuinely love science, engineering, and technology. I love working to solve complex problems. Even just having the opportunity to think about other people’s work and seeing people present is exciting. I love knowing about the newest and latest. 

Is defense work a highly collaborative space? 

Not always. There are classification levels for defense and aerospace, so if you aren’t “need to know” then you can’t really collaborate or be part of certain discussions. Internal research and development requires some collaboration, but we don’t work as closely as people might at a Google or LinkedIn. 

Who is in your support system? Do you have any mentors?

I was fortunate enough to meet one of my very good friends, Julian Anderson Lee. She was my grad mentor, and became my roommate, then best friend. She works at a similar company and a competitor of my own employer. So we don’t talk about our actual work as much as we talk about things like, “This person said this to me -- am I tripping?” Or just airing frustrations about a particularly difficult technical issue we’re having trouble solving. The affirmation and validation are amazing. It’s also nice to have her as an outlet because I speak to some of the women in the company where I work, but they’re white women. I don’t feel that I can talk about everything I’m experiencing because sometimes they’re the perpetrators. I also have some mentors from my previous jobs who are Black men, such as Jalil Hudson. 

What are you looking for ? 

I’m seeking to transition my career so that I’m more excited about what I do more often. Where I work, watching news is part of my job, and what happens with China or North Korea has a different bearing for me. It’s a lot. I feel conflicted, and I’m ready to move past the phase of being conflicted. I make good money, and I do enjoy what I’m doing, but as a Black woman, I don’t always feel great about what I do. In a way, I feel that being a Black woman is against the nature of the business I’m in. I’m looking forward to finding an engineering role that sits well with me. And there’s a lot of focus on how Black women are underrepresented in STEM fields, but I’m also realizing that every Black woman I’ve ever talked to no matter their degree or profession always find themselves in racist and sexist environments. There is no easy path, so we have to push back. 

---

Please share this post with a friend, and follow us at @BlackWomenWorkIG!